December 2, 1970 Missouri State Land Survey Authority Meeting Minutes

Minutes of Meeting

Missouri State Land Survey Authority

December 1 & 2, 1970

     Authority Members assemble at the Carney Motel in Rolla, Missouri the evening of December 1, 1970 for a discussion of possible legislative action advisable to present to the next General Assembly.  Meeting with the Authority were members of the Legislative Committee of MARLS.

     The Session on December 2 was called to order by Chairman Kennedy at 8:30, with all members and Mr. Jacobs, planning coordinator, present.  Meeting with the Authority were Messrs Myers, Kaller, and Reed, members of the Legislative Committee of MARLS.  Mr. Myers stated that their committee and the members of MARLS desire to foster close cooperation with the Authority in an advisory and "sounding board" capacity.

     Myers stated that he was in contact with NOAA in regard to surveying standards and control.  Two questions regarding the existing Missouri coordinate statute were offered:

1. What agency is authorized to change the control standards for first and second order surveys?

2. Are not the USC & GS standards too extreme to use as control standards for the Missouri Coordinate System?

     It was recommemded by the Committee that there should be no immediate change of the present statute.

     Representatives of MARLS and the Authority had met with the recorders and explained the formation and aims of the Authority and the recording fee.  It was reported that there was a general feeling that progress was made in explaining the purpose and the need of the Authority.

     Myers submitted some general suggestions of MARLS regarding the critical path and item descriptions of proposed programs for the Authority and a chart of suggested internal structure of the Authority.

     It was suggested by Reed that the State Land Surveyor be employed as soon as practical in order that he would be present in the early plan formulation of long range planning activities.

     Mr. Jacobs informed the MARLS Committee Members of the Authority's emergency appropriation request and the request for FY 1972 appropriations.

     Following a general discussion of incompetent surveying practices and conflict of statutes, Myers suggested that a MARLS committee work with an attorney to investigate statute revision after compiling a state-wide inventory of surveying and recording methods, procedures, etc.

     A general discussion was held concerning actual projects the Authority should initiate within the next two years:  Reestablishment of section corners, monumentation, and the problem of coordination of urban coordinate datums.  These comments led to viewing the legal aspect once again.  Should some statutes that are so critical and of an emergency nature be revised in the near future, or should a complete revision of all pertinent statutes be planned for revision at a later date?

     Chairman Kennedy stated that, in his opinion, two problems exist that need early action:

1. Revision of the C & GS standards for Missouri Coordinate System, and

2. Revision and/or statement of survey accuracies

The Authority agreed;

1. That a committee of MARLS should investigate the existing statutes and make recommendations for revision, and

2. The Authority would investigate the possibility for financial assistance to the MARLS committee for said investigation.

     Subsequent to excusing the MARLS Committee Members, the Authority discussed with Mr. Jacobs the future housing and space problem and concurred that we shall continue to work on all possibilities.

     Chairman Kennedy called for corrections or additions to the minutes of the meeting of October 23 that had been distributed to the members.  Several corrections were suggested, following which Mr. Eckhardt moved, and Mr. Barr seconded, that the minutes be approved as corrected.  The motion carried.

     The problem of the Nebraska vs. Missouri boundary dispute was discussed, with consideration as to whether the Authority should be the proper State agency for actually resurveying, or supervising resurveying, of any areas that may be required or desired by the State of Missouri, and with consideration as to whether the Authority at this time is in a position to undertake any such work.  It was the consensus that it would be appropriate at this time to begin exploratory talks with the Attorney General.

     Mr. Jacobs presented the monthly financial report and explained results to date of acquisition of data from surveyors relative to the "good corner project."

     The House Subcommittee investigation capital improvement requests of the House Appropriation Committee, consisting of Representative Garrett, Heflin, and Betz, accompanied by Representative Smallwood, conferred with the Authority regarding the Authority's request for a building.  The Authority agreed to include in the request monies for land acuisition in addition to requested building request.

     The Authority met in executive session to discuss desired qualifications for the position of State Land Surveyor.

     Meeting adjourned at 4:15 p.m.

{signed} William C. Hayes
         Temporary Secretary


-------------------------------
Transcribed by Steven E. Weible

Missouri Professional Land Surveyor Licensing Requirements

The following article represents my views on changes that could be made to the licensing requirements for Missouri Professional Land Surveyors. To view the current laws, rules and regulations pertaining to Missouri Professional Land Surveyor licensing requirements click here.

===============================================================================

Back in the year 2000, the legislative committee of the Missouri Society of Professional Surveyors was pursuing changes to the licensing requirements for professional land surveyor. The committee proposed to require four years of satisfactory professional field and office experience to qualify for examination and licensure as a professional land surveyor. This proposed change was successful and is embodied in the current Section 327.314 of the Missouri Revised Statutes (go to Missouri Revised Statutes chapter 327).

At the time this change was proposed, I was enrolled as a land surveyor-in-training (as well as an engineer-in-training) and was asked to comment on the proposed change. Having recently completed the process of enrollment as a land surveyor-in-training, I felt that the entire licensing process needed revision and in a memo, dated September 20, 2000, I responded with the following discussion. I do not know how these comments were presented to or received by the legislative committee, if at all, but I believe that they are still relevant and worthy of sharing with a broader audience.

==================================================================================

Before discussing licensure of the professional land surveyor (LS), it would be instructive to first examine the licensing procedure of the professional engineer (PE). In order for a PE candidate to be licensed he must (1) be over the age of 21; (2) be of good moral character; (3) obtain a degree in engineering from an accredited school of engineering, or the equivalent thereof; (4) pass the Fundamentals of Engineering examination; (5) obtain four years of satisfactory engineering experience under the direct supervision of a PE; and (6) pass the Principles and Practice of Engineering examination. Now, to generalize requirements (3) through (6) the candidate must (a) obtain a specified minimum level of education; (b) pass an examination of fundamental principles; (c) gain actual, hands-on experience under appropriate supervision; and (d) pass an examination of the principles of the practice of the profession. These requirements represent a reasonable progression of development: understanding the basic concepts, demonstrating understanding by examination, gaining practical hands-on experience, and demonstrating competence to practice as a professional.

The LS candidate, on the other hand, can currently choose one of three options to qualify for the land surveyor-in-training examination. The options vary in the amount of education and experience required and, as a result, do not establish a minimum required level of education and experience.

For guidance in structuring the process for licensure of the land surveyor, perhaps we should look at the scope of the examinations. The following is quoted from the NCEES Professional Land Surveying Candidate Handbook:

"The FLS [Fundamentals of Land Surveying] examination focuses on the recall of basic principles and the application of mathematical formulas in the solution of basic surveying problems. The PLS [Principles and Practice of Land Surveying] examination tests the candidate’s ability to apply the basic principles of land surveying in making judgements based upon typical field data."

Therefore, we may say that the FLS exam tests the understanding of basic concepts, which is obtained through education and that the PLS exam tests the application of concepts to real world problems, an understanding of which is developed through qualified experience. It would seem reasonable, then, to require a minimum level of education in order to qualify to take the FLS exam and to require a minimum level of qualified experience to take the PLS exam.

Based upon the above reasoning and the existing requirements, I would suggest the following requirements/procedure for licensure of the land surveyor:

A. Requirements for enrollment as a Land Surveyor-in-training

   1) over the age of 21
   2) good moral character
   3) high school graduate or equivalent (GED)
   4) satisfactory completion of college coursework as follows:

      Mathematics, 8 credit hours
         Algebra, Trigonometry and/or higher mathematics

      Communications, 3 credit hours
         e.g., Technical Writing, Speech, etc.

      Board approved Surveying Courses, 12 credit hours
         2 credit hours must be in Legal Aspects of Boundary Surveying

      Science/Technical Arts, 9 credit hours
         e.g., computer science/programming, CAD, physical science,
         physics, chemistry, drafting, etc.

These educational requirements come directly, for the most part, from the Missouri Code of State Regulations, Sections 20 CSR 2030-14.030 and 20 CSR 2030-14.040 [go to 20 CSR 2030 now]. The gist is that just as the engineers are required to meet a specified course of study as defined by the degree requirements of an accredited program, the surveyor should also be required to meet a specified course of study. (Granted, the requirements for the surveyor are not as rigorous as for the engineer.) Is a minimum requirement of a four-year degree the panacea? While a four-year degree in an applicable field of study would be good, I believe that these degree programs contain a lot of fluff that really contribute nothing to a candidate’s preparedness for a professional land surveying license. A better solution would be a targeted course of study such as I have presented above. The specific course of study could be negotiated among professionals in a manner similar to the method of determining the content of the Missouri State-Specific Land Surveyor Exam.

   5) pass the NCEES Fundamentals of Land Surveying 8-hour Exam

"Experience" gained prior to attaining the minimum level of education should not apply to the requirements for licensure, because, until this minimum level is attained, the candidate has not begun to approach the professional level. Only experience gained after enrollment as an LSIT should count toward qualifying for the PLS.
　

B. Requirements for licensure as a Professional Land Surveyor

   1) enrolled as land surveyor-in-training
   2) four (4) years of qualified field and office experience in land surveying under the direct supervision of a Professional Land Surveyor
   3) Pass the 6-hour NCEES Principles and Practice of Land Surveying exam
   4) Pass the 2-hour Missouri Specific Land Surveyor exam

I believe that this plan establishes a minimum level of education that should prepare the candidate for the FLS exam, without causing undo burden, while, at the same time, protecting the welfare of the public by demanding a minimum level of competence. The mathematics, communications, and science classes are readily available as day or evening classes at nearly every junior college, college, and university across the state. Obtaining the necessary surveying coursework, however, is still a challenge and is probably the most formidable obstacle in the licensing process.

I do not believe that classroom education can be substituted for field experience, nor can field experience be substituted for classroom education. The classroom is the best environment for learning the concepts and the field is the best place to learn the application of those concepts.

October 23, 1970 Missouri State Land Survey Authority Meeting Minutes

Minutes of Meeting

Missouri State Land Survey Authority

October 23, 1970

The stated meeting of the Authority was called to order by Chairman Kennedy at 10:10 a.m. in the conference room of the Buehler Building, Rolla, Missouri.  All members and Mr. Art Jacobs, planning coordinator, were present.

Minutes of the October 7th meeting as previously distributed were corrected.  It was moved by J. S. Anderson and seconded by R. J. Barr that the minutes, as corrected, be approved.  The motion carried.

Chairman Kennedy explained the establishment of a "reading file" to be maintained by the Coordinator for reference by Authority members.

Mr. Jacobs reported that several letters from County Surveyors have been received in reply to correspondence.  Similar letters are to be sent to members of MARLS, and later to registered land surveyors not members of MARLS.

Attention of the Authority was directed to the budget recommendation of the Director of Budget.  Art Jacobs presented a review of the efforts to obtain a satisfactory budget.  The Budget Office has recommended the following:

        Personal Service       $66,488.00
        Additions               34,555.00
        Repairs & Replacements     300.00
        Operations              87,700.00
                              -----------
                    Total     $189,043.00

It was agreed by the Authority to request - at the Governor's Appeal Hearing - restoration of $95,900.00 in operations in order to provide services (through contractural services) as established by Statute.  Members agreed to be present at the hearing without compensation or reimbursement for expenses.

The Authority plans to make appropriate contact with the chief executive officer of:  Missouri Land Title Association, Missouri Association of Realtors, and Association of County Recorders.

A summary of expenses to date and proposed future expenditures was presented by Mr. Jacobs and approval given by the Authority.

A late November, or early December, meeting date will be determined and the members properly informed.

There being no other business, the meeting adjourned.

{signed} William C. Hayes, Temporary Secretary


-------------------------------
Transcribed by Steven E. Weible